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    TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    Broke the mould again bought iMac 27" 3.1

    When the retina Mac book pro came out I had such an urge to get it but the cost in Denmark was so prohibitive around 5000 usd fully loaded.

    When i looked around I just found for the money as a starting building block of a up to date system the iMac 3.1 Ghz had alot going for it..

    Cheper used now 14 months or so after it's release.

    A big screen, more space for heat dissipation measures so that means it can be quieter in use. The 3.1 Ghz is louder than the 2.7 Ghz model though.

    Two thunderbolt ports, plus firewire, and Ethernet.

    That means I can still use wormhole without any adapters through ethernet. Then save the two thunderbolt ports for SSD harddisk and an extra monitor if needed. Look ma no dongles..

    Next up the 13" Mbp either the normal or the retina edition. It will be the same deal as the iMac, in 9 months I could get the present 13" model for about 25% off the new price, Or the retina model for 15% off, or just buy new..

    Then One mac mini server 2013-14.

    A three computer setup instead of three mini's

    Advantages are you are buying into the versatility that 3 different form factors offer.

    The iMac big screen fastest consumer processor maximum connectivty, WOW factor for the customers in the shop..

    The Macbook pro 13" is a little powerhouse with two cores and mulitthreading bringing it up to 4 virtual cores. It's lighter this helps as I'll be using it on photo travel safaries, this will have to be carried with me most of the time. Who wants to leave the computer back in the Hostel or in the hotel room in eastern or southern europe, north africa.

    The fact the the Macbook pro 15" weighs 2 kg, means that eh 13" model will have to lose at least 300-400 grams to make it attractive as a lighter Macbook pro...

    The price of the Macbook pro 13" with only two cores and a smaller Retina screen has to mean that it will cost around 25% less than the full MacBook pro 15 " base model.

    For this user that means quite alot. Also considering that I'm going for a three computer setup.

    The mac mini server 2013-14. It's got to aleast have the processor that the base model Macbook pro has 4 cores 2.3 Ghz i7. And must not cost more than the present mac mini server..

    Another intereseting alternative would be to do a mini tower, Hackintosh. with the 2.3 ghz i7...

    I can already see that one 3.1 Ghz iMac gets me a long way to fulfilling my needs for 24 + mulit voice compositions in realtime, no freezing. The modular nature of this setup means I can upgrade one piece at a time, saving me from taking any large unmanageble loans.

    I can easily repurpose one part of the system, to other functions:

    The iMac can function as a screen in target modus through the thnderbolt port for both the Macbook pro and the Mac mini.

    The mac mini alone could be a video nerve center in performance or a media hub for entertainment or for demonstration/teaching also as a backup station using a thnderbolt SSD to Sata II/III harddisks.

    The macbookpro can be used as a audio field recorder, a portable photo editor/storage or in tethered modus for timelapse photography, Also as my portable access to the internet connection..

    With a fast cabled internet connection on both ends I could leave the iMac and the mac mini setup at home, and tap a remote feed from them in a concert situation. Then I'd only have to take the Macbook pro, hookup a live stereo feed or even Surrond encoded signal...

    All three computers can be used individually by a team of 3 or more people in a high pressure deadline/ situation. Or for jamming as a group.

    Redundancy is always good if one computer needs servicing.

    Just a few ideas about the setups this three computer three form factor could be used for serious media production.

    Wade
    TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member
    Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 08-05-2012, 10:10 PM.

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  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    That is interesting info. Certainly worth a look.

    For a portable solution though I would think going for the Macbook Pro would be the path of least resistance.

    As a studio workhorse a hackintosh might be a good solution.

    Thanks for the heads up

    Wade

    Leave a comment:

  • nil
    Senior Member

  • nil
    replied
    Wade, have you ever considered building a hackintosh ?
    I'm running one as my main DAW for more than a year now. It's as stable as any mac, and has more processing power than a 3x times more expensive Mac Pro. Never had a single issue.
    I made that choice because I was broke when my previous macbook pro died and I needed the most powerful computer available.
    So I built a CustoMac Pro 2010 with some improvements (i7 950 CPU, SSD for system partition, watercooling kit for CPU). May I add that most hardware components have a 3 to 5 years warranty, without optional /expensive Apple Care.

    PS: it's totally legal here in Europe to build a hackintosh as long as you bought a copy of OSX.

    Leave a comment:

  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    I'm waiting for the mounney and waiting for the upgrades but my thought's about the whole setup shift around once again.

    I'd talked about starting with getting the 2 mac minis then a 2012 macbook pro in a year and a half or so when it comes out the other end, er on the used market where I could save say 30% of the new price. Now my thoughts are that the new version macbook pro thats coming with have enough raw power to cover my needs mostly , and perhaps get a single mac mini and say stop this mad rush towards a perhaps too complex setup.

    The best workflow would alway be with one single computer that can do the whole production.

    This is not quite doable for a reasonable price in the mac world, sure you could get a 8 core mac pro when it comes out for say 8000 usd, but it's not portable and that 's alot of money to tie up if your are me...

    So it's seems like the Ivy Bridge chips are going to tip the performance scale enough, it'll run cooler and therefore they will be able to pump up the Cpu to 2.5 or 2.6 quad core in a single Macbook pro 15" This combined with a SSD drive would pack alot of power.

    Then to flesh out the system I could get one single mac mini server new version when it comes out, perhaps it also will have a 2.5 quad core processor.

    This scenario if it works out would be a most attractive solution. you wouldn't even need an ethernet hub, just plug the cable directly between the two computers. 8 cores for a total of 20 Ghz of computing brash and brawn...

    No need for Vienna Pro in this Scenario either just use Wormhole..

    So my plan now is to get the Macbook Pro with the antiglare screen top model with no upgrade to processor or hardisk, and install the max ram.

    Use it at home with the iMac, later when the Mac mini server comes out in say Oct-Dec I'll get my friends at Five12 to send me a Mac mini serv whoops----> in a parallel universe this might happen, but it seems like CPU power is the spice of planet earth. Like in the Dune series on the planet Arrakis, everything revolved around the spice, and the lack of water. Here on earth it's all about the CPU and the heat they generate...

    Wade

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  • jim
    Administrator

  • jim
    replied
    Originally posted by TwoToneshuzz View Post
    Now this leads me to conclude that for plug ins that are open ended like Diva, Razor, Tassman upgrading to the i7 processors is a waste of money. The i7 processors are optimized for systems that are true multithreaded, That is a single process is spread out over several cores.. This is easily doable for things that don't need to be in realtime. For audio plugins this Realtime factor is what breaks the multithreading functionality..

    So upgrades to i7 for dedicated audio plugin player workstations are not necessary. It's only if you are really using multithreading for other appplications on a regular basis that you should spend the money on the upgrades..
    An interesting and I think probably accurate observation -- for heavy audio calculation, a single thread per core that can really crank up is what you'll want.

    Cheers,
    Jim

    Leave a comment:

  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    " If ain't broken don't fix it. " It's an old saying but sometimes I think it should be applied to the process of specing out a new system.

    The question here is if it's necessary to get the apple processor upgrades, in the iMac and the Mac minis..

    I have in the previous post gone on about the problem with the Mac mini server not being powerful enough to run Diva in certain configurations.

    After continuing my research I'm discovering that often users with the Maxed out iMac 3.4 Ghz i7 are also complaining about having too few voices available. I feel at the minimum 16 voices per machine is what should fairly be expected. I spec my system for live use. This gives a more intuitive and productive workflow in a studio or live situation.

    Now this leads me to conclude that for plug ins that are open ended like Diva, Razor, Tassman upgrading to the i7 processors is a waste of money. The i7 processors are optimized for systems that are true multithreaded, That is a single process is spread out over several cores.. This is easily doable for things that don't need to be in realtime. For audio plugins this Realtime factor is what breaks the multithreading functionality..

    So upgrades to i7 for dedicated audio plugin player workstations are not necessary. It's only if you are really using multithreading for other appplications on a regular basis that you should spend the money on the upgrades..


    I'm now considering a single iMac 21.5" 2.5 Ghz i5 Quad Core networked with a single Mac Mini duo core 2.5 Ghz i5

    I save about 400 usd by not going with the upgrades here in Denmark.

    I'll end up with this system:

    iMac 21.5 2.7 Ghz ? Quad core i5 Ivy bridge buy when released

    Mac mini 2.7 Ghz ? Duo Core i5 Ivy bridge buy when released

    iMac 20" 2.4 Duo core mid 2007

    Mac Book pro 15" 2012 Ivy bridge 2.5 Ghz? Quad Core buy used Sept 2013

    Networked over Lan using Wormhole or Vienna Pro.

    Regards

    Wade
    TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member
    Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 03-05-2012, 03:05 AM.

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  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    AHWOOGA AHWOOOGA!!!! Alarming NewwWsssSSSss

    On the Uhe forum a Yewser has complained about the poor performance he's getting out of his Mac mini server 2.0 Ghz with Diva..

    This is not good neauwes not good neauwes at allll!

    My plan was to get a pair of Mac mini servers to start my Mac mini modular setup. But if a single core can't handle a polyphonic patch with oscillator stacking, then the whole idea is flawed...

    My mid 2007 iMac 2.4 Ghz is giving okay performance, so this issue with the server being less capable has me really worried!

    I would have to spend serious cash to realize this mac mini modular, so it has to give me absolutely ironclad multivoice multi oscillator performance with these synths:

    Diva

    RAZOR

    Tassman

    Chromaphone

    ACE

    Big Sample instruments, like the True Strike Tension Kore instrument that trounces my computer..


    So the mac mini modular really needs a Mac mini running at the maximum speed available which at present is 2.7 Ghz in the Duo Core upgrade.

    This is valuewise a rather poor deal as you only get two cores per machine, in Denmark at the apple store it costs 1400 usd, and then you still miss the keyboard mouse and screen...

    I think I need to wait for the 4 Core mac mini server to get a speed boost to at least 2.4 preferrably 2.7 Ghz before it's viable to use with my instruments of choice..

    Urs Heckman has mentioned that they are working on making Diva more efficient, and further that their looking into spreading the CPU load for one instrument out over 2 or more cores.. Imagine a synth running on several cores crazy.. It has to happen though as it seems that the only increase in performance we are getting these days is an increase in the number of Cores not the actual CPU speed.

    The issue with the CPU speed on the Mac Mini server is related to the PSU being an internal, this limits the cores speed apparently because of heat concerns..

    So I'm now thinking that the 21.5" imac in it's next upgrade is the most ecominically and performance tuned system for my pocket book.

    The next 21.5 iiMac will no doubt have the Ivy Bridge chip and in the mid model have the same clock speed as the present 27" base model a 3.1 Ghz, upgradable to 3.4 Ghz If I could get this processor(speculation) at the same price as the 21.5" upgraded model in a month or two, it could be a mac mini modular killer for a time..

    The Imac will perhaps become thinner and lighter this makes the 21.5" sort of more portable. I could saw off the stand and make a tight little flight case for it so I could still get into the carryon for Air Travel.

    Later I could supplement with a 2012 macbook pro 15" non glare screen.. The mac mini modular time will come, maybe in 2015 or it¨ll all just be done on the cloud in 2017

    Oh the pain of living in interesting times.....


    Regards

    Wade
    TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member
    Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 03-04-2012, 11:10 AM.

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  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    Okay apple don't listen, this mac mini idea is absolutely no Mac pro killer, the big studios need more power. And boasters need it too! Forget all about this mac mini modular thing apple, the whole idea got out hand not realizable, hot air, talking silly talk, like the monty pythons silly walk, look the other way now apple, your not listening ? GOOD!

    Wade
    TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member
    Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 02-29-2012, 12:44 PM.

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  • jim
    Administrator

  • jim
    replied
    Originally posted by TwoToneshuzz View Post
    This is sort of relevant for using the Mac Mini for among other things Graphic multiple screens arrays or other graphic and other PCI stuff:


    http://www.sonnettech.com/news/pr201...underbolt.html
    Indeed -- thunderbolt is pretty awesome stuff...

    Originally posted by TwoToneshuzz View Post
    Seems like three mac minis networked with one of these PCI adapters on the master machine is a mac pro killer..
    Oh, please don't say that -- I'm afraid Apple will listen!

    Cheers,
    Jim

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  • jim
    Administrator

  • jim
    replied
    Originally posted by TwoToneshuzz View Post
    I'm still checking around the net on my coming upgrade and found this setup.

    Apparently you could use Wormhole to do the same thing as I was thinking using Vienna Ensemble Pro for .. And it's free.
    Just thought of what could be a very interesting trick: using Wormhole transmit CV busses from Numerology on one computer to Numerology on another -- Just use the CV to Audio module on one end and the EnvelopeFollower on the other.. It would be a pretty extravagant use of resources (MIDI CCs work just fine in many cases), but for some signal type, it could be very handy....

    Cheers,
    Jim

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  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    More connectivity goodness, a Thunderbolt to expresscard adapter by Sonnet technologies.


    could be nice with two firewire busses on a mac mini server or expresscard audio interface:

    http://www.sonnettech.com/product/ec...underbolt.html

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  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    Mac mini server 2011 with Vienna Pro :

    http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/31121.aspx

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  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    Just a link for disabling the Server part on the Mac mini server:

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4827

    Regards

    Wade

    Leave a comment:

  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    This is sort of relevant for using the Mac Mini for among other things Graphic multiple screens arrays or other graphic and other PCI stuff:


    http://www.sonnettech.com/news/pr201...underbolt.html


    Seems like three mac minis networked with one of these PCI adapters on the master machine is a mac pro killer..

    Way more portable for air travel..

    Regards

    Wade

    Leave a comment:

  • TwoToneshuzz
    Senior Member

  • TwoToneshuzz
    replied
    Still doing my research on the Multithreading topic here and found this rather old SOS article on the subject.

    It just points up the issues, a multi computer setup when using non multithreading programs, is the quickest way to get expanded instrument counts in a transparent maner.

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan0...ician_0108.htm

    Regards

    Wade

    Leave a comment:

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