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Logic 8 and Numerology2 (Recording MIDI/Sync BPM)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Logos Lover View Post
    Is this best done using Bruno's method?
    You only need to do that if you are controlling instruments in Logic. Logic's default MIDI setup sends *all* MIDI coming into the program to all instrument plugins by default -- that's fine if you have a single keyboard controller, not so great otherwise. Logic also has some odd rules on how MIDI is routed to instrument tracks set to record. The end result is that you have to dig into the Environment setup and make changes it if you want something different.

    In your case, since you are directly addressing a hardware MIDI port, so you don't have to worry about Logic seeing that MIDI stream.

    Originally posted by Logos Lover View Post
    To route only midi from Numerology to the hardware synth in Logic, what should I have my various menu's set to in Numerology?
    Just set the MIDI out of the Numerology stack to point to the SQ80 and you should be fine. Create an audio track in Logic and set the audio input for that track to be the appropriate channels on your audio interface where the SQ80 is connected.

    Originally posted by Logos Lover View Post
    And to just leave the "audio" tabs set to none?
    Yep!

    Cheers,
    Jim

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jim View Post
      Just set the MIDI out of the Numerology stack to point to the SQ80 and you should be fine. Create an audio track in Logic and set the audio input for that track to be the appropriate channels on your audio interface where the SQ80 is connected.



      Yep!

      Cheers,
      Jim
      Ok i understand this now. Will try it out later on. Thanks

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ignatius View Post
        ...then i go back after the recording is done and trim the beginning of the audio files in logic and make sure i have the tempos set the same.
        Keep your setup the same but setup the MIDI Clock on Logic and Numerology with IAC (like I show in my video), then there's no need to trim your recorded audio in Logic because your recorded audio is already sync'd to the tempo you started in Logic.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ignatius View Post
          what? i'm confused by what you are asking. are you routing midi from N3 into logic then out to hardware synths?

          when i want to record my hardware boxes that are being played by numerology i just route the audio into logic and press record in logic and then play on numerology.. then i go back after the recording is done and trim the beginning of the audio files in logic and make sure i have the tempos set the same.

          i just let them run unsync'd because i'm just recording the audio and it doesn't really matter. Logc is just acting like a tape machine recording the hardware. Midi goes from Numerology directly to the hardware and not through anything else.
          If you route all MIDI data into Logic, you can still hear the song with your hardware device with your current setup, but instead of recording the audio, MIDI data is saved in Logic in an Instrument Track.
          Again, there's no need to "trim" any audio at that point either since everything is MIDI.

          On playback, you can play to your hardware device (and eventually record to audio) or you can loaded and play other software instruments to see if maybe another instrument sounds better with the MIDI data that was captured and recorded from Numerology.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by bruno garza View Post
            If you route all MIDI data into Logic, you can still hear the song with your hardware device with your current setup, but instead of recording the audio, MIDI data is saved in Logic in an Instrument Track.
            Again, there's no need to "trim" any audio at that point either since everything is MIDI.

            On playback, you can play to your hardware device (and eventually record to audio) or you can loaded and play other software instruments to see if maybe another instrument sounds better with the MIDI data that was captured and recorded from Numerology.
            like i said.. i tend to use logic as a tape machine. keep it simple.. limits editing obsessiveness and captures the feel of a jam session.

            i get all my sounds right long before i'm ready to record.. then tweak various midi parameters in numerology or FX settings of hardware FX units etc.

            it's just a different way of working.

            i guess capturing the midi simultaneously is a good idea though depending on the song etc. i may set up a template for that in logic.
            http://www.ignatiusmusic.com/

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            • #21
              Originally posted by jim View Post
              Just set the MIDI out of the Numerology stack to point to the SQ80 and you should be fine. Create an audio track in Logic and set the audio input for that track to be the appropriate channels on your audio interface where the SQ80 is connected.

              Jim
              Good news!!! It worked as you said it would Jim

              BUT.... there always is a but.....

              When I record the hardware synths output to an audio track, i'd say that it's late by somewhere in the region of 6 ms. (average from 294 samples to 372 samples late off the grid)

              Will the soon to be added to the SE version "Clock Offset" cure this?

              FWIW Using Logic 9, Unitor 8, audio buffer of 32 samples, the worst case scenario midi jitter I've tested was around 1.7 ms!!! Tighter than an Atari/Notator/Unitor 2 set up which I also tested (2.2ms) !! And this was with Logic 9 under HEAVY CPU load. So I know that Logic 9 can be very tight on midi.

              Just need Numerology to work as tight with it.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by ignatius View Post
                like i said.. i tend to use logic as a tape machine. keep it simple.. limits editing obsessiveness and captures the feel of a jam session.

                i get all my sounds right long before i'm ready to record.. then tweak various midi parameters in numerology or FX settings of hardware FX units etc.

                it's just a different way of working.

                i guess capturing the midi simultaneously is a good idea though depending on the song etc. i may set up a template for that in logic.
                That's cool, everyone has their way of working, just wanted to point the MIDI thing out.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Logos Lover View Post
                  When I record the hardware synths output to an audio track, i'd say that it's late by somewhere in the region of 6 ms. (average from 294 samples to 372 samples late off the grid)

                  Will the soon to be added to the SE version "Clock Offset" cure this?
                  I'll be adding something. I don't know if it will be the same clock offset system available in Pro now, or something else. I'm still working it out with the AU.

                  Originally posted by Logos Lover View Post
                  FWIW Using Logic 9, Unitor 8, audio buffer of 32 samples, the worst case scenario midi jitter I've tested was around 1.7 ms!!! Tighter than an Atari/Notator/Unitor 2 set up which I also tested (2.2ms) !! And this was with Logic 9 under HEAVY CPU load. So I know that Logic 9 can be very tight on midi.

                  Just need Numerology to work as tight with it.
                  Just to clarify the difference between latency and jitter (which, btw, I'll be adding all this to the new manual):

                  Latency is the delay in time from when you'd like something to happen (hear the midi note) until when it happens. Reducing audio buffer size reduces latency, etc. The clock offset module in N3 Pro allows one to reduce MIDI latency between one app and another or between an app and a hardware device, etc.

                  Jitter, when talking about MIDI, is a small, random variation in timing, typically on the order of a single ms or so, and on OS X happens when you try to generate MIDI without proper timestamps.

                  I'm working now to tightly control both in the AU right now. For the App, Jitter is a non-issue running standalone. Latency I haven't really checked, but will soon. In ReWire mode, jitter is a bit of an issue, but I can reuse the scheduling algorithm from the AU to improve it.

                  Cheers,
                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jim View Post


                    Just to clarify the difference between latency and jitter (which, btw, I'll be adding all this to the new manual):

                    Jim
                    Sorry got a bit side tracked in my post, but to confirm I was testing midi jitter variance with L9 Vs Atari. There is also midi latency depending on each hardware synths reaction time to midi data, but by using the delay function for each track in L9, I can pretty much record hardware synths bang on the grid....... with a max jitter of 1.7 ms of course

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bruno garza View Post
                      That's cool, everyone has their way of working, just wanted to point the MIDI thing out.
                      i'm glad you did! it will be useful for me to try a different method some times because one working method isn't always ideal in every situation.
                      http://www.ignatiusmusic.com/

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        re-up

                        Hi guys is it possible to re-up the videos!??!?! im trying to solve this problem to.

                        tks for everything

                        cheers

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by zhull View Post
                          Hi guys is it possible to re-up the videos!??!?! im trying to solve this problem to.

                          tks for everything

                          cheers
                          My hosting site is having problems.
                          I have a ticket with them right now.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Okay, it's back up now.

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                            • #29
                              tks mate

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                An update to this thread: Now that Logic supports "Audio Unit MIDI Effects", you should use the Numerology AUMX plugin with Logic. It gives you zero-config MIDI routing to an AU Instrument with very accurate timing. You can still use the regular AU, but then you have to work with the Logic Environment to handle MIDI routing. Another option is to use Numerology in ReWire mode -- but for most folks, the AUMX is the way to go.

                                Cheers,
                                Jim

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