VST Limitations vs AU

[aputy]

Apologies if this has been asked before. I haven't been able to find the answer. Using Numerology with Ableton. When using Numerology as an AU I see that I can select Numerology as an Input and then specify the incoming MIDI channel. I don't see the same thing with the VST version. There doesn't seem to be an option to specify a MIDI input channel. Am I just missing it? Or is it a limitation with the VST.

TIA

[jim]

It has to do with the way MIDI is routed for the AU vs. the VST:

- With the AU, MIDI has to go through an IAC Buss -- more flexible, but timing isn't super-accurate.

- With the VST, MIDI routing is through Live internally, not as flexible, but you get super-accurate timing.

I *always* recommend using the VST with Ableton, much easier to live with.

Another note: Live force-channelizes all MIDI to Ch 1 -- though I don't remember offhand if that is just for VST-generated MIDI or all MIDI routed internally…

Jim

[aputy]

Thanks for responding. I'm sure i'm missing it...but how can I achieve the following:

- In Ableton...using the Numerology VST plugin
- Multiple Modules in the Numerology instance each outputting to different MIDI channels
- Each MIDI channel received from Numerology VST plugin outpatient to a different VST instrument in Ableton

Thanks.

[jim]

I would recommend using one plugin instance per part/instrument. That gives you the best flexibility on routing, and ensures that you get to use the Stack Presets as they are meant to be used (one Stack per part). It is a bit more hassle from the UI perspective -- having to juggle plugin UIs, but if you have a Launchpad or Push, then that issue is partially mitigated.

There are a couple options:
- If you have a way to filter notes by note number in the target synth, you could split your parts that way -- one sequence in the bottom 2-3 octaves, then a 2nd, etc. A bit of a pain -- and thus not a normal recommendation...

- Use ReWire -- you get to keep one-stack-per-part, route MIDI however you see fit, etc. The MIDI timing will not be as accurate as the VST, but with some fine tuning (short-ish buffers, etc) it isn't all that bad -- about the same as most older MIDI hardware really.

Jim

[m5tevens]

Does the AU need the IAC gyrations in Logic-X? I'd probably migrate back to Logic if I could get VST timing with multi-channel midi. I seem to remember you mentioning something about the possibility of having bussing work between plugin instances ... that would be awesome if it all feasible.

[jim]

Does the AU need the IAC gyrations in Logic-X? I'd probably migrate back to Logic if I could get VST timing with multi-channel midi. I seem to remember you mentioning something about the possibility of having bussing work between plugin instances ... that would be awesome if it all feasible.

On Logic X, OS X 10.9 and later, you can use the N4 AU MIDI Effect for 'direct to the instrument' MIDI routing, makes life w/ Logic much, much easier!

Jim

[Per Boysen]

I just had an idea while reading this conversation. Regarding Live; I guess one could set up controller clips in Live that sends the relevant MIDI Program Change events into the Numerology plugin for switching between Numerology presets. Myself, I've used that technique a lot with other powerful plugins under Live and like it a lot. It allows you to work "the Live way" with clips and scenes as well as the random clip launch fixes in Live.

I'm currently not upgrading my Live 8 to 9 though. Instead I did put that money into a Bitwig license and I'm looking forward to using Bitwig together with Numerology in the future. Same "clips & scenes" work flow as Ableton and already just as good (or in some areas better) Push support :-)