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Any way to obtain Cthulu chord magic?

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  • Any way to obtain Cthulu chord magic?

    I've been testing Cthulu for the purpose of getting some different results in terms of chord progressions, etc.
    Maybe a stupid question, but isn't there a way of implementing that kind of chord progression magic within N4?
    Cheers
    Paul

  • #2
    My go to chord wizardry tool is nChord by AvantgardeSound, it runs on Lemur.

    http://www.avantgardesound.com/

    If there was a way to get the depth of nChord with the ease of use of Cthulhu incorporated into Numerology I think that would make for a mindblowing piece of software.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Groovetronic View Post
      My go to chord wizardry tool is nChord by AvantgardeSound, it runs on Lemur.

      http://www.avantgardesound.com/

      If there was a way to get the depth of nChord with the ease of use of Cthulhu incorporated into Numerology I think that would make for a mindblowing piece of software.
      I have nchord. Haven't used in a while though. Incorporating the principles behind this would be all kinds of wonderful within numerology. Mind blowing I agree.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Uncle GroOve View Post
        I've been testing Cthulu for the purpose of getting some different results in terms of chord progressions, etc.
        Maybe a stupid question, but isn't there a way of implementing that kind of chord progression magic within N4?
        Cheers
        Paul
        So is the easy triggering of chords you're looking for, or the custom arp pattern bits?

        Cheers,
        Jim

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jim View Post
          So is the easy triggering of chords you're looking for, or the custom arp pattern bits?

          Cheers,
          Jim
          Before I forget: my original question is NOT a smackdown of N4


          Now, back to the original intent:
          what I do like in Cthulhu is the way they've incorporated all these chord progressions, ready to be triggered. It's a very powerful, left-field, tool indeed.

          Having said that Cthulhu's arp section however lacks the N4 algorithmic magic and breadth of scope, even though it does have some interesting quirks of its own.
          Maybe you two should do a joint-venture ?

          Paul

          Comment


          • #6
            Cthulu does look like a very clever plug-in. Weirdly, it is kind of a harmonic "plagiarizer". They've lifted chord progressions (and voice-leadings) from a bunch of Bach chorales and probably lots of other sources, and allow you to randomly trigger and re-order them. If one wanted lift some chord progressions and voicing/arrangements from Bach or jazz standards or other sources, they can always just do that on their own. But at $40, it is a fairly reasonable little plug.

            I think it would be interesting to have a nice selection of chord/voicing/progression sets (like Cthulu has), and perhaps even a collection of melodic shapes (a la Slonimsky) as compositional fodder, to be able to trigger and mangle in N4. It might even be interesting to set up a little crowdsource open source collective to post & share little smf snippets.
            Last edited by stubbsonic; 01-18-2015, 10:39 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by stubbsonic View Post
              Cthulu does look like a very clever plug-in. Weirdly, it is kind of a harmonic "plagiarizer". They've lifted chord progressions (and voice-leadings) from a bunch of Bach chorales and probably lots of other sources, and allow you to randomly trigger and re-order them. If one wanted lift some chord progressions and voicing/arrangements from Bach or jazz standards or other sources, they can always just do that on their own. But at $40, it is a fairly reasonable little plug.

              I think it would be interesting to have a nice selection of chord/voicing/progression sets (like Cthulu has), and perhaps even a collection of melodic shapes (a la Slonimsky) as compositional fodder, to be able to trigger and mangle in N4. It might even be interesting to set up a little crowdsource open source collective to post & share little smf snippets.
              Well I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "plagiariser". After all JSB was fond of recycling his material and gifting it as new to this or that prince, bishop, etc
              But these unusual chord progressions and shapes make for some interesting "building blocks", they force to deal with stuff that's far removed from the comfortable and the familiar - i.e. the Rut - and tickle the ear in many nice and unexpected ways.

              And as I stated before, an interbreeding of Cthulhu and Numerology could possibly birth some kind of wonderful monster...Personally I'd name it...

              Qabbalah


              Cheerz

              Paul

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Uncle GroOve View Post
                Before I forget: my original question is NOT a smackdown of N4
                Oh never any worries on that front. I have a tendency to wander off in to code-land and not pay enough attention to the big picture sometimes. I always appreciated it when users point out areas that need some attention -- and both the ChordSeq and MatrixSeq are on that list. Now that the ChordSeq is smarter about being able to pick chords to match a key, there are lots of interesting new things it could be taught to do...

                Originally posted by Uncle GroOve View Post
                Now, back to the original intent:
                what I do like in Cthulhu is the way they've incorporated all these chord progressions, ready to be triggered. It's a very powerful, left-field, tool indeed.
                Their triggering by key trick is interesting -- though I think I would find it frustrating that the link of chord base tone and midi note are mixed up...

                Originally posted by Uncle GroOve View Post
                Having said that Cthulhu's arp section however lacks the N4 algorithmic magic and breadth of scope, even though it does have some interesting quirks of its own.
                I'm thinking that the ChordSeq and MatrixSeq could collaborate together more smoothly….

                Cheers,
                Jim

                Comment


                • #9
                  can this kind of be done by:
                  have a mono note, feed a few modules that:
                  - setup chord seq with transpose, gate velo
                  - select chord seq step with parammod
                  - trigger step.

                  I think step 2, would be easier if there was a CV input for step selection, something Id like for other reasons too

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by stubbsonic View Post
                    Cthulu does look like a very clever plug-in. Weirdly, it is kind of a harmonic "plagiarizer". They've lifted chord progressions (and voice-leadings) from a bunch of Bach chorales and probably lots of other sources, and allow you to randomly trigger and re-order them. If one wanted lift some chord progressions and voicing/arrangements from Bach or jazz standards or other sources, they can always just do that on their own. But at $40, it is a fairly reasonable little plug.
                    The Bach Chorales are an interesting choice. They are public-domain, so the use is totally legit. In fact, I'm having a bit of fun downloading MIDI clips from all sorts of composers -- Listening to Mahler #5 via the DLS Synth is pretty surreal…. So those discoveries and this discussion in general folds in well with the impending ability to import MIDI Clips. I haven't gotten the ChordSeq where it can import MIDI yet, but I'm sorting through various ideas there….

                    Originally posted by stubbsonic View Post
                    I think it would be interesting to have a nice selection of chord/voicing/progression sets (like Cthulu has), and perhaps even a collection of melodic shapes (a la Slonimsky) as compositional fodder, to be able to trigger and mangle in N4. It might even be interesting to set up a little crowdsource open source collective to post & share little smf snippets.
                    I agree. One of the new generator algorithms I've been considering would pick a pattern randomly from a library of your existing patterns (and/or MIDI Clips), and optionally transform them a bit (evolve).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      BTW: Anyone wanting some guidance on building chord progressions should read at least the first couple chapters of Walter Piston's _Harmony_:

                      http://www.five12.net/showthread.php...ghlight=piston

                      In particular, there's a chart in there that it super handy…. (but I don't have my own copy handy or I'd list the page number…)

                      Cheers,
                      Jim

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for that reference (and the scripbd link).

                        The idea of taking existing chord progressions (that have the voice leading already worked out) then slicing to individual chords and (possibly) re-ordering in such a way that somewhat preserves the basic feeling & flow of voices seems present a great potential for harvest.

                        I also think applying a wider range of rhythmic ideas to those chords (and melodies around them) adds another level that would be virtually as obscured from the original composition as a from-scratch composition is.

                        I did reach out to the Cthulu developer about tuplets and different step:beat ratios for the arpeggiator, but he said (essentially) "No one has asked for that."

                        In the demo vid they go on about removing limits, and happy accidents. But no liquid tuplets or polyrhythms in this puppy.

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