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  • Looking for a controller as a buddy for Push

    Hi all,

    As stated in the thread title. I'm looking for a controller with endless knobs or touchstrip faders with led's (important for me to leave out the guesswork considering the knob/fader's position) to complement my Push controller.

    It has to have a minimum of 8 controls, more is always better.

    I've gotten bad experiences with Novation SL, Maschine mk2, BCR-2000 (knobs all started acting up after a while).
    I've used an iPad 3 for a while with Lemur and various other software but hated the experience and wireless problems (ugh!)

    Thought, ideas?
    I was thinking of Livid Code V2 (although the spacing between the knobs seems small) or Livid Base. Anybody willing to share their experience regarding those (build quality etc)?
    I was also looking at the Akai Max 49, although this is way too big and i don't need keys (Push got me covered with pads which feel better for me).

    Any other suggestion is welcome.

    Many thanks!
    Last edited by 33tetragammon; 07-22-2014, 01:39 PM.
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/33Tetragammon
    Music: https://33tetragammon.bandcamp.com/releases

  • #2
    FYI: N4 doesn't have support for incremental controllers yet -- but the good news is that it is pretty high on the list. Be sure to lobby your developer!

    Jim

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    • #3
      Originally posted by jim View Post
      FYI: N4 doesn't have support for incremental controllers yet -- but the good news is that it is pretty high on the list. Be sure to lobby your developer!

      Jim
      Sorry, i'm not that familiar with that term. Is it the same or similar to 'relative'?
      What kind of knobs does Push actually have?
      If Push would do some sort of automatic FaderBox mapping (when selecting the FaderBox) with feedback on the display i'd settle for that and wait patiently for the implementation.

      Developer! Where art thou? LOL!!!!
      Last edited by 33tetragammon; 07-22-2014, 06:00 PM.
      Twitter: https://twitter.com/33Tetragammon
      Music: https://33tetragammon.bandcamp.com/releases

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
        Sorry, i'm not that familiar with that term. Is it the same or similar to 'relative'?
        Yeah -- pretty much the same...

        Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
        What kind of knobs does Push actually have?
        Probably relative, as you suggest -- which reminds me, I need to add support for those knobs...

        Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
        If Push would do some sort of automatic FaderBox mapping (when selecting the FaderBox) with feedback on the display i'd settle for that and wait patiently for the implementation.
        In that case, push for more Push support ...

        Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
        Developer! Where art thou? LOL!!!!
        I'm listening... And I should get my hands on a Launch Control as well...

        Jim

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        • #5
          Thanks, Jim!

          Pu-Push it real good......!!!LOL!!!!

          Launchcontrol....hmmm...pretty cheap.
          Jim, what about some sort of 'pickup' mode for those kind of knobs that are NOT endless and faders. Ya know, like the 'pickup' takeover mode in Ableton Live? This will only start moving the software controls after the physical control matches and exceeds those.

          Push?
          Last edited by 33tetragammon; 07-23-2014, 03:20 AM.
          Twitter: https://twitter.com/33Tetragammon
          Music: https://33tetragammon.bandcamp.com/releases

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          • #6
            More Push support

            I'll toss my $2 (inflation) in for more Push support. Love the idea of automatic fader box mapping. In general it seems there are a lot of Push controls yet to be used by N4. I think it would also be great to have documentation on what has been done so far and how to use it… Casey

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            • #7
              Originally posted by casey View Post
              I'll toss my $2 (inflation) in for more Push support. Love the idea of automatic fader box mapping. In general it seems there are a lot of Push controls yet to be used by N4. I think it would also be great to have documentation on what has been done so far and how to use it… Casey
              I believe Jim is working on documentation and videos regarding N4 (out officially in September i saw on KVR).
              Twitter: https://twitter.com/33Tetragammon
              Music: https://33tetragammon.bandcamp.com/releases

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
                I believe Jim is working on documentation and videos regarding N4 (out officially in September i saw on KVR).
                Yup -- I've done one pass to update the doc on grid mapping, will need to do at least one more before putting it up...

                Jim

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
                  Thanks, Jim!

                  Pu-Push it real good......!!!LOL!!!!


                  Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
                  Launchcontrol....hmmm...pretty cheap.
                  Yup -- I just ordered one... And I got a deal on a used APC-40, for those keeping score...

                  Originally posted by 33tetragammon View Post
                  Jim, what about some sort of 'pickup' mode for those kind of knobs that are NOT endless and faders. Ya know, like the 'pickup' takeover mode in Ableton Live? This will only start moving the software controls after the physical control matches and exceeds those.
                  That's a standing request, and one I hope to take care of sooner. As with knobs that work as encoders, I'm still working out the best policy. As much as I might try to be smart about detecting if incoming MIDI from a controller is meant as relative vs. absolute vs. pickup, probably the best option is to add a ctlr spec for 'Generic MIDI' ctlrs, and let you specify what-is-what...
                  (and that gives me a natural spot to keep track of knob positions, etc.).

                  Cheers,
                  Jim

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                  • #10
                    As i mentioned in another thread :
                    I know Jim does fantastic things, and i consider him Superman
                    I'll add this to the above:

                    He continues to Push the envelope....
                    Twitter: https://twitter.com/33Tetragammon
                    Music: https://33tetragammon.bandcamp.com/releases

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                    • #11
                      as a first/primary grid controller what would you guys suggest?

                      Id like something that I can use in N4, and also possibly in other applications
                      (e.g. Max, and other stuff that I write for). it will be in my studio, so don't care about weight etc.... I really want to reduce the amount of time, I have to reach for the mouse/keyboard, which i find disruptive.


                      Price... this is dipping my toe into this area so don't want to go overboard, however, for the same reason, I don't want to get something too limited... that will put me off, or worst mean I ended up buying something else later down the line.
                      I do have Live (suite) though not using it all that much (due to its poor midi handling, no poly pressure/track = 1 midi channel from M4L), but perhaps with a grid this might change.


                      Push
                      Pro:
                      However user mode seems quite simple to program to, so could use in other apps.... (are there official docs for programming user mode?)
                      Looks top quality
                      Con: expensive

                      Livid OHM RGB slim
                      Pro:
                      top quality
                      spec published but more complicated that others as all done via sysex.
                      lots of generic faders
                      Con:
                      expensive, though perhaps a bit cheaper than Push
                      not quite as convinced of the layout as push, e.g. lacks the side pad that are present on the push/launchpad

                      akai apc 40
                      Pro:
                      looks good quality,
                      price a bit more than Launchpad, but less than Push/Livid (lots on ebay)
                      Con:
                      no n4 support
                      not a standard 8x8 grids, its more like 5x8 + 1x8 + 1x8 etc,this means the current N4 mapping would need work to make it 'fit' logically

                      Launchpad
                      Pro:
                      Very good value, well published spec
                      Con:
                      no faders, or LCD display



                      I think these are the prime candidates... others are smaller so not good for primary controllers.
                      I guess is comes down to how much I'm willing to pay... but what your thoughts?

                      Cheers
                      Mark

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                      • #12
                        Thanks... Ive just 'pulled the trigger' on an Ableton Push, as I think the extra knobs could be quite useful in some other (non n4) contexts.
                        At the moment I'm getting deeper into Max, so I think I can do some nice performance related things with a custom performance environment Im building.

                        Yes, I tried Lemur, but for some reason I didn't really 'click' with using the iPad in this situation.
                        its not an N4 thing either, as I found the same when using Live using lemur and things like 'touchable'... which others swear by. I guess I just like hardware buttons/knobs.

                        I think probably I will use Lemur in conjunction with N4 and Max, in a more specific way, e.g. perhaps to modulate specific faders/xy that kind of thing.

                        anyway, I'm excited, looking forward to having a much more direct hands-on (or hands off mouse!) experience with both N4 and Live.

                        @Jim +1 on more features for the push e.g. knob mapping
                        if there is anything I can do to help on this, just give me a shout.

                        Alternatively, a push (no pun intended!) on the bi-directional OSC mapping, could allow for custom integration with Max and other environments.
                        (as you know I'm a big fan on making it so that the OSC api could allow people to build their own controller interfaces, for whatever they have... eg. my eigenharp )

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheTechnobear View Post
                          @Jim +1 on more features for the push e.g. knob mapping
                          if there is anything I can do to help on this, just give me a shout.
                          Already done -- out w/ the next build. You'll get knob support in Mixer mode for the appropriate params (vol, pan, aux) and in many 'rack edit' modes -- gate, velocity, etc. There are several outstanding request for the FaderBox, so I'll look into that next...

                          Originally posted by TheTechnobear View Post
                          Alternatively, a push (no pun intended!) on the bi-directional OSC mapping, could allow for custom integration with Max and other environments.
                          (as you know I'm a big fan on making it so that the OSC api could allow people to build their own controller interfaces, for whatever they have... eg. my eigenharp )
                          I'll be updating the OSC stuff once the Soundplane shows up...

                          Cheers,
                          Jim

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                          • #14
                            I'm happy to see that support for incremental knobs/faders are "high on the list"! I need that badly to use Numerology with my Faderfox LV3.
                            Best wishes
                            Per Boysen
                            perboysen.com
                            soundcloud.com/pboy

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jim View Post
                              I'll be updating the OSC stuff once the Soundplane shows up...
                              just seen the post on madrona labs website, looks like you don't have too long to wait
                              it will be very interesting to see what you make of it, its a fascinating instrument.

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