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  • Preset Control via Midi

    With my first post i want to say hello to everybody.
    I checked the demo of Numerology and the app seems to be close to what I'm searching to create midi arrangements in Logic.
    The Touch Tracks Objects in Logic is real pain so that my focus with Numerology is on covering that task.

    In the Manual it's explained how to change presets via the comp. keyboard and midi note and programchange messages. This works so far.
    But i don't understand the midi routing.

    I created 2 stacks, on each 3 presets, "C1" note calls for the 1st preset of both Stacks, "Db1" for the second of both and D1 for the third.
    Both Stacks have the same Midi input but when i change the midi input of one to "none" the presets still change on both by triggering the assigned notes.
    Setting the Midi input of Stack 1 and 2 to "none" will not prevent the preset changes.


    1. Can someone explain me where the midi input is that corresponds to the presets?


    2. Is it possible to raise the midi assignment of a preset chromatically by duplicating or snapping it?
    Lets say preset 1 is assigned to "c1", duplicate it, and preset 2 has automatically "db1" assigned.


    3. I would like to work with predefined assignments for preset changes. The only way I see is to create for example 6 presets for every stack, assign them like i want and save it as a project. But this makes the workflow a little more complicated because the Duplicate and Snap options would be useless. I have to copy the settings from one to the other preset. How this can be done?

    Is there an other way for predefined preset change assignments?


    4 I saw that Launchpad videos and if I'm not wrong there were simular tasks explained. So I guess there must be a way.
    Is there a Midi Assignment List that shows with what kind of midi ch. and mess. the Launchpad communicates with Numerology (Numgy )?


    I really hope that Numgy and me gonna get married because I searched for a partner like this for a long time.
    It's really a great tool. By the way is there a list that compares the two avaible Versions

    Greetings
    SPUMD

  • #2
    Originally posted by SPUMD View Post
    With my first post i want to say hello to everybody.
    I checked the demo of Numerology and the app seems to be close to what I'm searching to create midi arrangements in Logic.
    The Touch Tracks Objects in Logic is real pain so that my focus with Numerology is on covering that task.

    In the Manual it's explained how to change presets via the comp. keyboard and midi note and programchange messages. This works so far.
    But i don't understand the midi routing.

    I created 2 stacks, on each 3 presets, "C1" note calls for the 1st preset of both Stacks, "Db1" for the second of both and D1 for the third.
    Both Stacks have the same Midi input but when i change the midi input of one to "none" the presets still change on both by triggering the assigned notes.
    Setting the Midi input of Stack 1 and 2 to "none" will not prevent the preset changes.


    1. Can someone explain me where the midi input is that corresponds to the presets?
    The midi input is at the top of the stack when in routing mode, and is called midi remote

    Originally posted by SPUMD View Post

    2. Is it possible to raise the midi assignment of a preset chromatically by duplicating or snapping it?
    Lets say preset 1 is assigned to "c1", duplicate it, and preset 2 has automatically "db1" assigned.
    Not possible as far as I can see..

    Originally posted by SPUMD View Post
    3. I would like to work with predefined assignments for preset changes. The only way I see is to create for example 6 presets for every stack, assign them like i want and save it as a project. But this makes the workflow a little more complicated because the Duplicate and Snap options would be useless. I have to copy the settings from one to the other preset. How this can be done?

    Is there an other way for predefined preset change assignments?
    I've been working with presets quite alot lately and I think the way is not to make a predefined preset, but when you have worked out something that you want to define as a preset only then you add it to a preset group, perhaps duplicate an existing preset work on some then double click and assign your midi note number or program change number..

    Working with predefined presets is in a way like doing double the work to reach the same goal..

    Originally posted by SPUMD View Post


    Is there a Midi Assignment List that shows with what kind of midi ch. and mess. the Launchpad communicates with Numerology (Numgy )?
    Yes the launchpad has a midi assignment list, but I think the way it works with numerology it is programmed at a deeper level, so it's not user customizable..

    I'm still working out how to use presets in my setup and find that it's a powerful but also takes thought to work out the best working method..

    Comment


    • #3
      @TwoToneshuzz
      Thanks, the midi remote was the one. Its described in the manual very well but i missed it some how.


      Originally posted by TwoToneshuzz View Post
      I've been working with presets quite alot lately and I think the way is not to make a predefined preset, but when you have worked out something that you want to define as a preset only then you add it to a preset group, perhaps duplicate an existing preset work on some then double click and assign your midi note number or program change number..

      Working with predefined presets is in a way like doing double the work to reach the same goal..
      Well the assignment of the midi remotes in Numgy takes time and ain't handy.
      And even if it would be more handy in 80% of the tasks you will follow the path you are use to. For me in my workflow it doesn't make sense to assign it every time new. Touch Tracks in Logic causes the same pain times 50.
      I like to get as fast as possible to a level where i can play with sequences, mash them and record the results aso.

      I mean it's ok the way it is now in Numgy, i can live with that. But I still hope there is an other solution.


      Originally posted by TwoToneshuzz View Post

      Yes the launchpad has a midi assignment list, but I think the way it works with numerology it is programmed at a deeper level, so it's not user customizable..

      I'm still working out how to use presets in my setup and find that it's a powerful but also takes thought to work out the best working method..
      I think the best working method depends on the task and the other tools you work with. I do songwriting and Club/ Dance Tracks. I like Logic a lot, Ableton with its clips would be the better DAW/ Plugin for me but i don't like the way it feels. Just my taste.

      Numgy would cover all the clip shooting + I like to work with midi and all the step sequencing and arp possibilities.

      I think in busses
      Drums/Percussion;
      Bass;
      Keys /Guitar(or Synths that cover it);
      Strings/Horns (or Synths/Pads that cover it);
      Voc efx;
      Ambient fx;

      This would be six Stacks and I got 16 Midi Channels to send out to Logic

      The best working method in my case would be if every 1st preset in a stack, that has an assignment would be the guide to increase chromatically the assignment for the next preset that is created by snap or dup.

      Stack 1: Preset 1 = C1; Preset 2 = Db1; Preset 3 = D1;...
      Stack 2: Preset 1 = C2; Preset 2 = Db2; Preset 3 = D2;...
      Stack 3: Preset 1 = C3; Preset 2 = Db3; Preset 3 = D3;...
      Stack 4: Preset 1 = C4; Preset 2 = Db4; Preset 3 = D4;...

      If I change the assignment of the first preset of in a stack all others should (optional) follow chromatically.
      In the mixer view I can select multiple Presets, dup them all at once and set them all to one assignment at once.

      That would cover it all for me.


      Is there a link to this list? I was reading a thread were someone wrote that Launchpad uses mostly simple note on and off messages.

      greetings
      SPUMD

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SPUMD View Post
        @TwoToneshuzz
        Thanks, the midi remote was the one. Its described in the manual very well but i missed it some how.




        Well the assignment of the midi remotes in Numgy takes time and ain't handy.
        And even if it would be more handy in 80% of the tasks you will follow the path you are use to. For me in my workflow it doesn't make sense to assign it every time new. Touch Tracks in Logic causes the same pain times 50.
        I like to get as fast as possible to a level where i can play with sequences, mash them and record the results aso.

        I mean it's ok the way it is now in Numgy, i can live with that. But I still hope there is an other solution.




        I think the best working method depends on the task and the other tools you work with. I do songwriting and Club/ Dance Tracks. I like Logic a lot, Ableton with its clips would be the better DAW/ Plugin for me but i don't like the way it feels. Just my taste.

        Numgy would cover all the clip shooting + I like to work with midi and all the step sequencing and arp possibilities.

        I think in busses
        Drums/Percussion;
        Bass;
        Keys /Guitar(or Synths that cover it);
        Strings/Horns (or Synths/Pads that cover it);
        Voc efx;
        Ambient fx;



        This would be six Stacks and I got 16 Midi Channels to send out to Logic



        The best working method in my case would be if every 1st preset in a stack, that has an assignment would be the guide to increase chromatically the assignment for the next preset that is created by snap or dup.

        Stack 1: Preset 1 = C1; Preset 2 = Db1; Preset 3 = D1;...
        Stack 2: Preset 1 = C2; Preset 2 = Db2; Preset 3 = D2;...
        Stack 3: Preset 1 = C3; Preset 2 = Db3; Preset 3 = D3;...
        Stack 4: Preset 1 = C4; Preset 2 = Db4; Preset 3 = D4;...

        If I change the assignment of the first preset of in a stack all others should (optional) follow chromatically.
        In the mixer view I can select multiple Presets, dup them all at once and set them all to one assignment at once.

        That would cover it all for me.
        Yes well explained, and I also would like this functionality but it just ain't so right now, so it's manually assigning each preset..

        Originally posted by SPUMD View Post

        Is there a link to this list? I was reading a thread were someone wrote that Launchpad uses mostly simple note on and off messages.

        greetings
        SPUMD
        The Novation website is the place for the midi documentation on the Launchpad.. But again I don't think this will help you when using the Launchpad in Numerology mode..

        I hope you get it all worked out , I for one am sold on Numerology and keep on being amazed at how deep the program is and how just about every problem can be solved by one module or another..

        A last note I'm sure you can have access to more than 16 midi channels if you need it, the midi output module is in the input output folder in the modules sidebar list, here you can get access to as many outputs as you need, to define midi out channels you can either do that on the sequencers by clicking the advanced tab and defining your midi out channel there or insert a midi filter module, found in midiproces folder and define a output channel there

        Regards

        Wade
        Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 05-16-2011, 11:33 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SPUMD View Post
          The best working method in my case would be if every 1st preset in a stack, that has an assignment would be the guide to increase chromatically the assignment for the next preset that is created by snap or dup.

          Stack 1: Preset 1 = C1; Preset 2 = Db1; Preset 3 = D1;...
          Stack 2: Preset 1 = C2; Preset 2 = Db2; Preset 3 = D2;...
          Stack 3: Preset 1 = C3; Preset 2 = Db3; Preset 3 = D3;...
          Stack 4: Preset 1 = C4; Preset 2 = Db4; Preset 3 = D4;...

          If I change the assignment of the first preset of in a stack all others should (optional) follow chromatically.
          In the mixer view I can select multiple Presets, dup them all at once and set them all to one assignment at once.

          That would cover it all for me.
          That very item is on my todo list -- and getting closer to the top, so thanks for bringing it up. It would work like this: there would be an 'auto assign' pref for preset changes such that the midi assignment for all presets would be based on the first preset -- either by incrementing note numbers or prog change numbers.

          On the Launchpad front, it does just send MIDI notes -- at least for the grid buttons and the "scene" buttons -- the top row of buttons are all CC's. Anyway, as TwoToneshuzz suggested, Numerology's Launchpad mapping is very 'deep' -- there's a significant amount of 'state' and logic in Numerology to track all the modes and such, and it works very differently from the basic preset assign controls.

          Finally on the N3 SE vs. Pro question, here's the rough draft of the very-overdue product page update I've been working on:

          The Pro version has these extra features:

          - Multi-output support for hosted AudioUnits.
          - Monophonic audio routing support.
          - OSC (Open Sound Control) support.
          - Custom scale quantization (via the Custom Scale module).
          - Several new modules: Gate Generator, CV Delay, Clock Offset, CV To Audio, Unary Op, Binary Op, & Ternary Conditional
          - More customization options for the Evolve function.

          If you use CV-based modules (Interval Seq, Gate Seq, LFO, etc) frequently, or you want to use AU's with multiple outputs, then get the Pro version.

          If you mostly use the Note Sequencers (MonoNote, PolyNote, DrumSeq, etc) then you'll be fine with the SE version.

          Future additions will follow this pattern: more esoteric features will be in the Pro version, more common ones will be in both versions. For instance, there is an "Audio Switch" module that didn't quite make it to the release. This will be added for 3.1 Pro. Two more items that are a bit further down the line are chorus and flanger modules, which will show up in both versions.


          Cheers,
          Jim

          Comment


          • #6
            @TwoToneshuzz.
            Thanks for your reply.

            @Jim
            Big compliment for this software. While i tested the demo i felt the passion you putted inside this app. Its very inspiring to play with the generator.
            Ideas come quick. From the creative site there is no discussion...this a great tool.

            After checking the midi processing modules and recognizing that most of the learn assignments work with CCs (and no midi transformer modules... as i far as i can see i would have work with "midi to cv" and "cc gen" ) i came to the conclusion that this might be the weakest point of Numgy where the Launchpad becomes indispensable to get the fun i'm searching for.
            And then we are in a price range where Max MSP becomes an option.

            For shure there is more fun with the Launchpad and Numgy but the freedom that MAX MSP offers is attractive too.

            Just wanted to share my thoughts.

            Thanks for the answers.

            Greetings
            spumd

            Comment


            • #7
              I think most of the processing in Numerology is done in the CV processing, which is easily as sophisticated as anything you would find prebuilt in any other program..

              Signal Proc module

              Scale and Offset module

              Binary Unirary andTeniary OP modules

              S+H register

              And don't forget anything in your softsynths can be accesed through use of the Paramod module using whatever control source you need midi, or within Numerology or piped in from another program

              So it's midi CV, then not ONLY cc gen but CV processors and from here into an output module that may be the CC generator but could also be another sequencer or a note generator or a midi filter module..

              As to the Launchpad. I'v used one for around a year, got it mint used for around 30% off of the new price.. It hasn't missed a beat, it works rock solid with Numerology and so I higihly recommend it, it's not a cost added device to get the most out of Numerology though, as you can get alot of the functionality it offers by using the Computer keyboard shortcuts, midi input from keyboards, faderboxes, triggers and so on. It's just the Launchpad has the helpful visualfeedback, it's a compact light package with a lot of functionality built in for Numerology thanks to Jims absolutely top end interfacing solution..

              Regards

              Wade

              Good Night and Good Luck

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SPUMD View Post
                After checking the midi processing modules and recognizing that most of the learn assignments work with CCs (and no midi transformer modules... as i far as i can see i would have work with "midi to cv" and "cc gen" ) i came to the conclusion that this might be the weakest point of Numgy where the Launchpad becomes indispensable to get the fun i'm searching for.
                A lack of modules for midi transformation is definitely a weak spot. I think the primary reasons are that they are not essential to Numerology's main focus (sequencing), and user requests for them are relatively rare. However, there are some important use cases -- usually controller related, where they would be useful, so I'll put them on the official wish list.

                On the controller front, my main philosophy on how to integrate controllers changed significantly after writing the Launchpad mapping and continues to evolve. The Launchpad experience taught me the incredible value of having a zero-configuration, 'deep-integration' experience for the user -- even with the limitations of an 8x8 grid (w/ a few extra buttons), it completely changes the experience of using Numerology. I'm in the process of expanding that experience to include knob & fader based controllers and other grid-based controllers. Something your post points out is that there should also be a clear story for keyboard-based controllers, so I'll add that question to my list of thought experiments...

                Cheers,
                Jim

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi TwoToneshuzz & Jim
                  thanks for your answers.
                  There is a Freeware called Midipipe that can route midi input to any output
                  and convert Note Messages to CC ones.

                  So it is possible to say:
                  - take the -1 octave,
                  - convert every note to the desired CC as Trigger
                  - route it to IAC Bus 7

                  Choose IAC 7 as the input of your Stack and assign the CCs

                  Such a Tool in Numerology, a little easier to use and chromatical auto assignments, would be great.

                  Cheers
                  SPUMD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Note to CC conversion is pretty easy, so though I can't promise anything, I'll see what I can do to get such a module into 3.1...

                    Cheers,
                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jim View Post
                      Note to CC conversion is pretty easy, so though I can't promise anything, I'll see what I can do to get such a module into 3.1...

                      Cheers,
                      Jim
                      Yes Jim it's pretty easy, it would be great to see it in 3.1

                      All the Best
                      SPUMD

                      Comment

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